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Future of the division?

Discussion in 'Dirt Mods' started by kelvin, May 7, 2012.

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  1. Chucky72

    Chucky72 Registered

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    Oatesy at lest you are honest in saying you cannot afford to run a mod at the moment, but as you said the second hand stuff is mostly crap or if its not its to dear but with the motor changes and the rule changes to suit the US cars the more that will be imported so in time the market will have better cars/hand me downs at a better price but it will take time.The PR days or drive days proberly wont happen,if you had a good mod would you pay for someone else to possibly run it into the wall? as for the smaller RR it wont even the feild out the cream always rises to the top, just look at the US mods the same 8 guys running up front.
     
  2. Leaso

    Leaso Holidaying

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    Hey Chucky while won't keep the cream down for long the right rear might even up the field long enough to see the alliance to the USA specs even out. Even if it don't what harm will it offer? At least everyone will have a common area to work with

    Larger right rears make things a bit more HP friendly
     
  3. Chucky72

    Chucky72 Registered

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    Optimism is a wounderful thing, If you put David Clark and myself on a 96 inch RR and let us loose and I know who will run second, does anyone on this forum know the price of the 96RR compered to the 104RR I bet you will get a shock as the US FR tyres are quite a bit dearer then our current RR and they all wear out.But if people want to run them, cool knock yourself out.
     
  4. robferr

    robferr Registered

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    I brought a 92" tire that was a chain block American racer tire that i used as a left rear it cost 220 as opposed to the 270 for a R/R 105"
     
  5. clunker

    clunker Registered

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    Rims would be cheaper wouldn't they?
     
  6. RussQ24

    RussQ24 Registered

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    92" inch Chucky... not 96.
    As i said aussie speedway is the motersport in the world that wont believe that tyre rules that restrict available traction actually helps parity. You only have to read the posts on this thread to see that.

    Cheers Russ.
     
  7. robferr

    robferr Registered

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    14 inch wide 5 would be cheaper than a 17 inch
     
  8. Chucky72

    Chucky72 Registered

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    Clunker, good point the rims are cheaper but what do you do with all the 17inch wheels that people/suppliers have?Rob is that the tyre the US cars run as a RR? the last 104RR cost me $220 if I recall right.
     
  9. Chucky72

    Chucky72 Registered

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    Russ do you think if we bolt on 92inch RR sorry about the 96 that I or Booker for example are going to run up front with the top teams?
     
  10. RussQ24

    RussQ24 Registered

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    Chucky ive seen you race your troyer and i 100% believe YES you would run closer to the front if all cars ran the 92 as the yank car was designed to run... Infact if the track was to slicken off you could find yourself on the podium. All the bicknell and teo cars would also reap rewards from running the tyer the cars where designed for.
    Also the lower HP guys would find the racing alot more fun by being able to run closer to the big boys.

    Cheers Russ
     
  11. scottcannon

    scottcannon Registered

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    The same drivers would be running up front & the same guys running @ the rear,sorry to tell you.
    The latest Bicknells that come to Australia are made to suit the 105RR like the Troyers.
    92" tyre price is about $20 difference to @ 105''
     
  12. mod15

    mod15 Registered

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    Yes and we will be using more of them the window for set up
    Is a lot smaller with the 92 in RR so we spend more on shocks
    and we will be no better of in the US they start 30 cars in the
    feature race with bigger HP then us and the same 3or 4
    driver win yep they have the parity thing right
    I think we have had more different winners here
    Over the last season
     
  13. RussQ24

    RussQ24 Registered

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    OMG.... "bangs head on wall" gota love straya.
     
  14. robferr

    robferr Registered

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    Just a few interesting facts firstly in the USA they run very minimal stagger between 5 to 9 inches here in Aus we run 10 to 14 maybe bigger with our smaller tighter tracks so with that in mind and with a 92inch Right rear tire as proposed by a few here how do we get a left rear tire to suit, you would be flat out getting a tire to get you more than 10 inches if you were lucky that would mean a lot of tight race cars .................... very interesting
     
  15. Chucky72

    Chucky72 Registered

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    Good point Rob, but the bigger RR also compensates of lack of ability to a degree, could you amagine how many cars would spin them self stupid with a tight car and a small RR. think of the ramifications.
     
  16. RussQ24

    RussQ24 Registered

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    Hi Rob, yes mate stagger would indeed be harder to come by but also keep in mind that side bite is reduced also so the cars may infact be a little loose on entry compard to the monster tyre... A couple of points to note, mod 15 made one true comment. The small set up window IS infact a valid point and as such is a positive comment for the smaller tyer. Im mean wouldnt it be better to win a feature because of a good set up NOT because of the extra HP purchased by a fat cheque book?
    Also as chucky said the big rr does compensate for bad driving under some circumstances, another example of the 92 providing parity for the budget racer who has nothing but a bunch of skill and talent to win races with.

    Cheers Russ.
     
  17. JBR Motorsport

    JBR Motorsport Platinum Member

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    I wonder where you are getting your Dirt Modified information from Russell. There is no way it is going to be a levelling affect for the budget racer.
    The using of the 92" tyre is going cost more than using the current American Racer right rear tyre.
    To start off with the 92" tyre is not going to last as long as the current AR tyre. There is a bigger difference between new and used 92s than the new and used ARs.
    If using the 92" tyre new rims would need to be bought and more variety of sizes and offsets than currently used for the AR.
    The smaller tyre on the older style cars would most likely not work as the older cars are not designed to get traction through the smaller tyre.
    The setup would be harder with the 92 tyre. The larger tyre allows a bigger setup window if you don't quiet get it right. The cars would be more sensitive to changes with the 92 tyre, so fine tuning the car would be a lot harder.
    More money needs to be spent to tune the car. More shocks, more springs and more offset rims with different circumference tyres.
    Also the cars are harder to drive on the smaller tyre.
    I am not saying we can't run the Dirt Mod on a 92 tyre. In fact we are doing it now. But to change here in Australia it is going to cost the competitor more in running costs than the current tyre rules.

    Cheers
    Jane
     
  18. RussQ24

    RussQ24 Registered

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    Hi Jane and thanks for taking the time to reply to our little debate,
    There is alot of merit to what you have said and i agree in part that yes there would be an additional set up cost for the current racers having to purchase wheels and tyres in order to comply with such a rule change. But im sure there would be plenty of 2nd hand wheels available on the 2nd hand market through the american racing scene.
    I aslo agree that there maybe some additional costs on a weekly bassis for racers due to the tyer wear as a result of the loss of traction that the 92" tyer would induce however it would pale into insignificance compered to the costs of ongoing engine development and service costs that it requires to run engines making large horsepower at massive rev ranges. The engine costs are the reason for this thread coming about and its the smaller tyre that would cure this problem that dirt mods are disscussing at the moment. Loosing traction releases load to the engine and drivelines so im sure maintanence costs would be substantially reduced as well.
    Then you have "on track" performance parities improved due to the fact that as you have said the cars would be harder to drive on the smaller tyre so this means good drivers will benifit more from the smaller tyre regardless of their individual budgets. Yes you may need a few extra shocks and springs in the tool box to get the best from the small tyer but im sure most budget racers would rather spend a few bucks on set up bits rather than thousands of dollars on developing, dyno tuning, maintaining and purchasing all of the bling that makes for a killer engine program.
    Infact the smaller budget guys would probably replace tyers less offen than teams with killer engines because the smaller HP engine may not spin the tyer as much. Time would tell i guess.

    Jane as im sure your aware i raced dirt modifieds for 4 or 5 seasons and it was the engine costs that drove me out of the class. I am a big fan of dirt mods and would love nothing more than to race them again as they are without doulbt my favorite race car but its still the costs of building and maintaining an engine that keeps me away from dirt mod competition. I simply cant afford it. The class i currently race in means i have to buy tyers, shocks, methanol, travelling cost etc etc but i can use my 3 year old low HP engine and enjoy the occastional feature win and poduim finish due to the USA rule book we use that means we have to use a 92" RHR tyer which brings parity to the class how else could i beat the guy's with 890 HP all aluminuim 434 cube killer engines? Tyer rule, tyer rule, tyer rule.
    The way i see it is like this, If Australian dirt mods ran the americam rules inc tyer rule i could bring in a 4 or 5 year old Teo, Bicknell, Troyer stick a little engine in it and use driver and set up ability to have a crack at the big boys from time to time. But as it is now i have to Bring in a newish Troyer or Bicknell that the has all the Aussie mods done to accept the massive tyer then i have to build a killer engine because of all the extra traction that the monster tyre provides or i simply wont keep up and no matter how well i drove i would more than likely get lapped by the big dollar boys.

    Cheers Russ
     
  19. boatboy

    boatboy Registered

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    Not trying to be for or against here but has anybody tryed the u.s. rulebook style setup on our tracks. with the dma looking toward the future at the 358 and sportsman and jr mods divisions, might be worth someone giving it a go.
     
  20. RussQ24

    RussQ24 Registered

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    Hi Boatboy, Once you overcome the battle of convincing people its worth a try then i suggest doing some tests on the 92" would be a fantastic idea.
    I wouldd suggest to get the best data you would take to a track with meduim to slick conditions such as a early feature race track condition. Then get a driver such current A1 Mark Robinson to do a few hot laps on both the current tyer and the small tyer and record the nett lap time lost in tenths of a second.
    Then get someone such as yourself with your low HP crate engine powered Teo to do the same thing and see if the loss of lap time is the same between both cars...
    I dare say that your imported old Teo would loose little to no lap time infact i believe you may even pick up a couple of tenths due to you being able run on a tyer that your car designed for and raced with in the USA. However i speculate that the bigger HP car of Robbo,s car may become a bit of a handfull even for such great driver and therfor loose a few tenths from his best times.

    How cool would that test be and the results would put to bed forever the debate of whether or not the Yanks know what thier doing running such a small tyer on the RR of thier race cars.

    Cheers Russ
     

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